[Moon] FW: [Moon-Net] Test

Zdenek SAMEK-OK1DFC ok1dfc at seznam.cz
Mon Jun 26 15:12:18 CEST 2017


I have to fully agree with Charlie in this case. As we discuss in Italy last
year after my presentation. 3cm is so critical for dimensions and accuracy. 
I will be happy with my V pol for more next years I think :-)




About DUBUS contest, as you know I was testing my 10 GHz gear before EME 
expedition as CN2R in October this year. I was using 180cm dish and 30W RF 
on the feed. N/F 0,65 dB on the feed. Already worked 20 stations. Everting 
was working well, including converting to JA band. Just only problem with 
elevation reader I have to fix, but it is very small project now. Thank you 
to all for nice QSOs and great fun. I heard during QSOs OF2DG and K2UYH 
which I did not work. I hope to work many of you from Africa.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

24/06/2017 06:43 HB9Q            JN47CG  O        RO       JT4F             
            552

24/06/2017 07:51 OK1KIR          JN79GX  RO       O        CW               
              5

24/06/2017 08:12 SP6JLW          JO80CF  RO       O        CW   #3          
            123
 
24/06/2017 08:24 OZ1LPR          JO44UW  599      529      CW   #4          
            645

24/06/2017 08:45 HB9Q            JN47CG  O        429      CW   #5          
            552

24/06/2017 09:26 YO3DZZ          KN34AN  O        429      CW   #6          
           1052

24/06/2017 09:35 PA0BAT          JO31FX  RO       O        CW   #7          
            609

24/06/2017 09:48 DB6NT           JO50TI  559      529      CW   #8          
            213

24/06/2017 10:20 PA3DZL          JO21HM  O        RO       CW   #9          
            719

24/06/2017 15:44 OK1CA           JO70UR  559      539      CW   #10         
            121

25/06/2017 07:26 JA1WQF          QM05AV  O        RO       JT4F #7 JT - #
DXCC --14/-16 9071

25/06/2017 07:50 YO2BCT          KN02PS  579      549      CW   #11         
            949

25/06/2017 08:16 G3WDG           IO92RG  559      429      CW   #12         
           1082

25/06/2017 08:32 G3WDG           IO92RG  O        RO       JT4F -14/-17     
           1082
 
25/06/2017 09:30 HB9BHU          JN37XG  O        RO       CW   #13         
            567

25/06/2017 10:47 DL7YC           JO62PK  O        529      CW   #14         
            291

25/06/2017 14:03 EA3HMJ          JN11AN  O        RO       JT4F #8JT - -14/-
17         1341

25/06/2017 14:40 WA3LBI          FN20JI  O        RO       JT4F #9JT - -15/-
17         6686

25/06/2017 16:43 VE4MA           EN19LU  O        429/RO   CW   #15 - DXCC  
           7157

25/06/2017 17:19 WA6PY           DM13LA  RO       O        CW   #16         
           9629

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------




-- 
Zdenek - OK1DFC
www.ok1dfc.com
QRV EME 144 MHz - 10 GHz
WAC 432 - 1296 - 2320 MHz
WAZ #9 - WAS 432 #29
DXCC 432 - 1296 MHz

---------- Původní e-mail ----------
Od: charlie at sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk
Komu: "Dominique Fässler" <dfaessler at bluewin.ch>
Datum: 26. 6. 2017 14:58:26
Předmět: Re: [Moon] FW: [Moon-Net] Test 
"Hi Dominique 

It is not a clear decision on whether LP or CP is "best". 

The Prague decision was made I think before CP was tested rigorously on 
10GHz. The main issue seems to be depolarisation loss, which 10GHz 
measurements indicate is worse on CP than LP. It seems that the 
depolarisation effects get increasing more significant as frequency 
increases, and are becoming noticeable certainly on 10GHz. More info 
here: 

http://www.eme2016.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/EME-2016-G3WDG-
Presentation.pdf 

I now am able to rotate linear pol very quickly, using a newly developed 
feed (that is soon to be published in Dubus). I took the opportunity 
during the contest to see who was using CP and LP , and almost everybody I 
worked was on LP. 

The "upside" of LP v CP, as noted in my paper, is that the CP to LP loss 
is only about 2dB, so you don't lose as much as you think. The paper also 
notes that for ultra small stations to big station, or small/medium 
station to small/medium station LP to LP gives better performance 
(provided spatial offset is small of course). 

So, for stations deciding to go with CP, you won't lose too much when 
working linear stations provided your CP is good (ie low axial ratio). I'm 
not sure how good in this respect all feeds currently in use are. 

On this basis, I think CP and LP happily co-exist and we don't need to 
"insist" on one or the other. 

BTW, re "excuses", I built a CP feed last year that works extremely well, 
with low loss and an excellent axial ratio, but do not now use it on the 
air. 

73 

Charlie 





> Peter, Vlada 
> 
> the fact that using a 2.4m dish LIN Pol can truly random copy CP signal 
> from 1m dish with only 50W at PA output (net at feed maybe 40W) is a very 
> strong argument to change to CP for everybody, as decided at the Prague 
> EME conference long ago. 
> 
> Given, the LIN Pol stn would have had CP instead, the signal would have 
> been much easier copied, all losses by the not perfect CP feed included. 
> The advantage would have been approx. 2.5dB. 
> 
> I made 2 fully random QSOs CP with 1m dish and moderate power. Already 
> 1.2m dish would improve another 3dB. Btw: I like "insane" power by 
> others, it enables me to copy them even with small dish and WP "wrong 
> Pol") 
> 
> I think time has come to go CP. No more excuses. 
> 
> 73 Dominique 
> 
> HB9BBD 
> 
> 
> 
> From: vlada [mailto:vlada.masek at volny.cz] 
> Sent: Montag, 26. Juni 2017 13:23 
> To: Hansen Peter 
> Cc: Moon-net; Dominique Faessler 
> Subject: RE: [Moon-Net] [Moon] Test 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter, 
> 
> very well, you touched everything, so I have nothing to add to. 
> 
> Looking for another "insane" beacon power from you on 6cm ! 
> 
> GL and 73, 
> 
> Vlada for OK1KIR 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________ 
>> Od: Hansen Peter <peter.hansen at dk.saabgroup.com> 
>> Komu: vlada <vlada.masek at volny.cz>, Dominique Faessler 
>> <dfaessler at bluewin.ch> 
>> Datum: 26.06.2017 12:56 
>> P�edm�t: RE: [Moon-Net] [Moon] Test 
>> 
> 
>> CC: <moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com> 
> 
> Hi Vlada I found the conditions quite good I had roaring echo during the 
> weekend. 
> 
> 
> 
> I have also given the CP/LIN some thoughts and I get by using V pol and 
> twist in case of need. Problem is no one get their CP Feeds near the 
> performance of Lin feeds. There are additional losses in the CP feeds. 
> Furthermore when one design a feed it is almost not fitting 100% 
> illumination wise. Specially in Offset dishes that can be felt. Also 
> dimensions are quite critical on 3cm making a good Circular Feed. 
> 
> I would need a waveguide Feed for Andrew/channelmaster dish. 
> 
> I am sure it will be hard to get all to agree on the topic. 
> 
> Agreed power is insane at JLW and at my Station. Well my TWTA is a Class A

> TWT and does like making max power out in the feed. Otherwise it is just 
> dissipated in the TWT. It draws 3000W from the 230V when PTT. It delives 
> around 750W on the flange but big loss in feeder system. 
> 
> 
> 
> Why alligator power ???. Well it makes everybody able to hear a signal 
> from the moon same as the Beacon but only better as there Is actually a 
> person behind. 
> 
> I try to infect as many as possible to this challenging part of our hobby.

> Hearing a signal from the moon makes them want more. 
> 
> Even my own kids are very amazed when I let them say a few words and hear 
> them back from the Moon :o). 
> 
> 
> 
> Vlada it is stations like you that makes the band a success as it is 
> always possible to work you. 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way soon I be QROO on 5.7Ghz also I just got the Waveguide feeder 
> so will make 500W where around 300W will hit my Feed horn that actually is

> CP :O) 
> 
> Have a nice day both of you. 
> 
> 73 Peter LPR 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com 
> [mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com] On Behalf Of vlada 
> Sent: 26. juni 2017 12:26 
> To: Dominique Faessler 
> Cc: Moon-net 
> Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] [Moon] Test 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dominique, 
> 
> first sincere congrats to 1st CW 3cm QSO. 
> 
> However something still to think about as the both OZ1LPR and SP6JLW have 
> huge TX power. 
> 
> Have you ever found ours 50W signal during the contest ? 
> 
> FYI, we made 32 CW QSOs. 
> 
> E.g. we made also random CW QSO with OK2AQ with 1.2m dish and similar 
> power (close to 50W at max) at spread of 120Hz, but with linear 
> polarisation ! 
> 
> Seems, these 3dB is terrible difference in real ether ! 
> 
> Probably, we shall live with LP vs CP troubles for some years and for many

> it is not as easy to swap it. 
> 
> Vy 73, 
> 
> Vlada&Tonda 
> 
> OK1KIR 
> 
> www.ok1kir.cz 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________ 
>> Od: dfaessler <dfaessler at bluewin.ch> 
>> Komu: Rainer <df6na at df6na.de>, Moon Reflector <moon at moonbounce.info> 
>> Datum: 26.06.2017 08:43 
>> P�edm�t: Re: [Moon] Test 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello All 
> Yesterday I wkd my 1st. 3cm EME QSO withOZ1LPR. It took almost 45 minutes 
> to complete due to my small signal. Later I had another chance with 
> SP6JLW, - same proceedure taking 30 minutes.. Easy copy at HB9BBD.No 
> chatroom arrangement or internet stuff, real EME in CW.Thank you guys for 
> this great fun! 
> Rig at HB9BBD: 1M offset dish, CIRCULAR POL, 50W, home made LNA 0.65dB 
> NF. 
> 73 HB9BBD, Dominique 
> 
> 
> Von meinem Samsung Gerät gesendet. 
> 
> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- 
> Von: Rainer <df6na at df6na.de> 
> Datum: 26.06.17 08:04 (GMT+01:00) 
> An: Moon Reflector <moon at moonbounce.info> 
> Betreff: [Moon] Test 
> 
> pse ignore 
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